Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. The cutting forces are much smaller on a CNC router and cutting forces is what matter. Endmills are not infinitely rigid, they tend to bend (deflect) when submitted to the cutting forces, and that deflection needs to be taken into account in the feeds and speeds. 25% of 50% of 1/4'' = 0.03125'', so adjusted chipload is: The ideal setting would be to max out the RPM, say 24,000 (to take an example that is reachable on the Makita, DeWalt, and common spindles). A large chipload requires a lot of router torque and machine rigidity, and each endmill has recommended chipload limits from the manufacturer anyway (i.e. That's because V-bits are special, due to their geometry and the nature of their associated toolpaths: The cutting speed varies along the edge of a V-bit, from its largest section ("top" of the V-bit) to its point (the surface speed is zero at the tip). scale that measures that. It delivers speed, power, and precision in a handy and easy-to-use package. : the endmill should not be more than slightly warm at the end of a cut: if it gets hot to the touch (careful! I have the Makita. Note that spindles may be upgraded w/ better collets. And then. 's worksheet is available in the forum here: https://community.carbide3d.com/t/speeds-feeds-power-and-force-sfpf-calculator/16237, value from the guideline table on the right, based on the recommanded values on the right (derived from the selected endmill diameter). Can someone measure the overall XXL height for me please? The Makita and DeWalt routers are rated at a max of 1.25HP (932Watts), but that is. that the Shapeoko has to put on the endmill to move it through the material: So all of this can be derived from the feedrate, WOC, DOC, endmill size, and material. RPM values below 10.000RPM…so each time I had to use a higher RPM, I add to compensate feedrate accordingly, not very fun) However, it requires specific toolpath strategies (e.g. At the time of writing, Carbide Create did not have this feature, so it generated all toolpaths using conventional milling. There is a strong dependency between DOC and WOC: since cutting forces increase with both DOC and WOC, you cannot cut very deep while using a very large stepover, that would put too much effort on the endmill. The whole "feeds & speeds" topic is arguably the most daunting part of learning CNC. The RPM range is 12,000 – 13,000RPM, making it pretty powerful. If the toolpath uses some ramping at an angle into the material, they can be increased quite a bit. And the distance being cut per minute is exactly the definition of feedrate, therefore, This also means that if your CAM tool comes up with feedrates or RPMs that are not in the range of your machine's abilities (, , recommended RPM lower than the minimum RPM of your router), you can just scale both RPM. For a given chipload, some combinations are still better than other mathematically-equivalent ones though (more on this below). And lower speed is obtained when it is turned in the direction of number 1. for this RPM to achieve the adjusted target chipload. Note: This item is non-returnable. However, that's true for even industrial grade machines. At this stage, the material is known, the endmill geometry is known, chip thinning is accounted for, which gave us an adjusted target minimal chipload. The maximum thickness (noted "C" below) happens when the cutting edge exits the material. A pretty neat feeds and speeds worksheet has been put together by @gmack on the Shapeoko forum (which he derived from an original worksheet from the NYCCNC website). There is always a compromise to be found between going faster but with a lower tool engagement (low DOC and/or low WOC), or going slower but with a higher tool engagement (higher DOC or high WOC), while staying within the bounds of what the machine can do. The two usual router choices for the Shapeoko are the DeWalt DWP611 or the Makita RT0701C (US versions), I went with the Makita option and ordered the European version (RT0700C) locally: The dial on top of the makita (not visible on the picture) sets the rotation speed: Dial position 1 => 10,000 RPM; Dial position 2 => 12,000 RPM Our Precision Collet Set The Compact Router includes a 12 foot power cord to make wiring easier for everything from our Shapeoko 3 to the larger Shapeoko XXL. The Shapeoko is made in the US and comes with a 12 month warranty. DeWalt or Makita for the Shapeoko 3? Routers with variable-speed motors run between 8,000 and 26,000 rpm. Do not take it for granted, start above 0.001'' and increase it incrementally (by keeping RPM constant and increasing feedrate) to find the limits for your machine and for a given material. The Shapeoko is partially assembled. have been if the cutter were engaged at 50%: For basic toolpaths, the stepover is often in the 40% to 50% range, and then you can just ignore chip thinning altogether. In so-called "conventional" milling, the direction of the endmill movement is such that the cutting edges bite from the inside to the outside of the material. 6061 T6 aluminium has a K of 3.34 cubic inches per minute, it's about 10 in³/min for hard woods and hard plastics. Either way, the feedrate to be used will be displayed at the right end of this line. Fly cutter) or any large square endmill, the intent is usually to shave off just a thin layer of material off the top surface, so one can feed quite fast. The Shapeoko's limits must also be accounted for: the absolute maximum theoretical chipload on a stock Shapeoko would be reached when using a single-flute endmill at the lowest RPM (10,000RPM on the Makita router) and at the fastest feedrate of 200 inch per minute, and that would be 200/(1×10,000) = 0.02'' = 0.5mm. Say we use a 25% radial depth of cut / stepover, i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h8o2Id1iLE, https://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Shapeoko_3#Videos, https://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Materials#Aluminium, https://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Spindle_Overview#Rotary_Spindle_Options, https://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/RT0701, Dewalt has finer-grained speed control, Makita lower and higher range of possible speeds (the lower speeds are especially useful on plastics and wood), Dewalt has multiple precision collet options (standard ones as well as the ER-style collets from Precise Bits), Makita has a single source for precision collets (albeit in a variety of sizes), Dewalt has lights, the Makita does not[5], Dewalt has a plastic button on the Body, which limits Z plane positioning inside the mount, Makita has a more Robust Tool changing mechanism, with a cylinder push lock below the shaft, which will allow more mounting options in the Z plane[6], Makita brush life longer and replacements less expensive and easier to change. The required feedrate to reach the target chipload will be computed. As a side note, for ball endmills, stepover value influences surface finish quite a lot. ), given the small WOC values you will definitely need to take chip thinning into account. Now we have to take a little detour and talk about stepover, because it impacts the effective chipload. Any mechanical mod of the machine also impacts the max chipload capability. What would I be getting myself into? power, and the power efficiency of a router is not very good (~50%), so the max actual power at the cutter is more likely around 450W. [–]TheKLaMike[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children), [–]WillAdams 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfYc35KeTEY, (from https://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Shapeoko_3#Videos ), c.f., https://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Materials#Aluminium, [–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children). You also need to make sure your machine is as square as possible. the Tool Engagement Angle (. aluminum mounts; 3D-printed Dust Shoe for the Makita RT0700C Router is feedrate, on some CNCs with a fixed tool and moving plate this is the speed at which the material is fed into the cutter, on a Shapeoko this is the speed of the gantry pushing the cutter into the material. " there's always a limit to the size of the bite you can take, whether you're a squirrel or a white shark). Increasing your feed rate decreases the speed difference between the edge of your tooling and the material, reducing friction. making dust, instead of clearly formed chips is an indication that chipload is probably too low (MDF is an exception, you just cannot get chips anyway with this material). (I didn't have the correct size brass inserts on hand, so just drilled through the sole and used m5 hardware) The required feedrate would then be : That is above the default capability of the Shapeoko (200ipm), it would be scarily fast for cutting hard wood, and 24,000 RPM may sound too loud to your taste anyway. avoid/minimize chatter (the horrendous sound heard when the endmill/machine vibrates while cutting through the material), optimize material removal rate (e.g. This kit includes: .25" Precision Collet .125" Precision Collet These are made in the US for Carbide 3D. If the blue cross is the position of the center of the endmill when this cutting edge starts biting into the material, and if the endmill is moving into the material at feedrate F, then a little bit later the endmill center is at the position of the purple cross, and the cutting tooth has rotated and gone out of the material. [–]tinkermakedotcom 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children). @Hooby on the forum consolidated a nice list of Janka hardness values for many types of wood, which I include here for reference. The remaining part is to chose a specific combination of RPM and feedrate values that together will produce this chipload, following the formula described earlier. RPM range is 12,000 - 30,000 Note: The Compact Router is only available in 120V with a standard US plug. The cutting area varies in size depending on the model you choose. The Carbide Compact Router has a diameter of 65mm and a speed range of 12k-30k RPM. of the feedrate for plastics (plunging fast is required to avoid melting), So when all is said and done, climb milling wins on almost every aspect except deflection. However there are other factors at play: in conventional milling, the chip is cut from thin-to-thick, so by definition when the flute first comes in contact with the material, it is rubbing the surface a little before it starts actually cutting into the material. for a given feedrate and endmill, the faster the endmill rotates the thinner each chip will be. push the endmill away from the material: moderate deflection will affect accuracy (pieces will cut slightly larger or smaller than expected), excessive deflection will cause tool wear or even tool breakage. The V-carving toolpaths tend to generate sloped trajectories and a lot of plunges and retracts, so the cutter engagement is constantly changing. : when feeds and speeds are not right for a given material/endmill/DOC/WOC, the tool tends to vibrate, and this vibration can get worse if there is resonance with another source of periodic variation elsewhere in the system (most often: the router and its RPM). in climb milling, the router torque pushes in the same direction as the feedrate, while in conventional it fights against the feedrate, so the forces on the stepper motors are higher. So the two choices are: These two situations are illustrated below: The small WOC, high DOC approach is much preferable, as it spreads the heat and tool wear much more evenly along the length of the endmill. This basic worksheet will just compute the required feedrate to get the desired chipload (taking chip thinning into account). "Stepover" refers to the offset distance of the endmill axis between one cutting pass and the next one, which also translates into how much new material is being removed by the endmill, or how much radial engagement is put on the endmill. The realtime feedrate override available in most G-code senders is a great way to tune the chipload value and find the sweet spot for a particular job. This section includes a little math (nothing too fancy), but not to worry: while it is important to understand the. (DOC) a.k.a. approach only ever uses the tip of the endmill, so that part will wear out quickly while the rest of the endmill length of cut remains unused. Note: This version of the Shapeoko XXL does NOT include a trim router, this will need to be purchased separately. The direction of the cut (climb versus conventional milling) pertains to the toolpath's generation options and not directly to the feeds and speeds, but while we are on this topic: since tool deflection is mainly perpendicular to the cut when using climb milling, it would seem like it is better to use conventional milling, to keep deflection parallel to the cut and therefore minimize dimensional errors on the final piece. In CNC, rubbing is the enemy. Printed & tested, fits great. All three work well on Shapeoko. Or, you can take a different approach and avoid slotting altogether, by using smarter toolpaths. And then depth of cut will also come in the picture (more on this later). The alternatives include avoiding straight corners in the design if possible (e.g. In practice, the latter is done. A too small chipload is actually worse: since the cutting edges are not infinitely sharp, at some point instead of slicing into the material, the cutting edges will mostly rub against the surface, and then "heat happens" and this is very bad for the quality of the cut and for tool life. The chipload values discussed earlier assumed that the stepover is at least 50% of the endmill diameter: Now consider what happens if the stepover is lower than 50% of the diameter, say 20% only: For the same RPM and feedrate, the actual chip is smaller, its maximum thickness is smaller than targeted, so there is again a risk of rubbing, or at least of sub-optimal heat removal. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. Cutting passes with a small stepover are better for surface finish quality, while passes with large stepover obviously reduce overall cutting time since fewer passes are required to cut a given amount of material. Additional performance features include electronic speed control to maintain constant speed under load, and soft start feature for smooth start-ups. However, its backer pad required the use of messy glues and adhesives. In practice, the latter is done. Here is a grossly exaggerated sketch of an endmill being subject to the cutting force: The amount of deflection depends on the endmill material (carbide is more rigid than HSS), diameter (larger is stiffer), stickout length, and of course the cutting forces that the endmill is subjected to, that depend on the chipload, DOC, WOC, and material. (stepover) based on the machining style you want (large WOC and small DOC, or large DOC and small WOC). to initially clear material down to the required depth, to allow small WOC to be used for the rest of the cut), this is covered in the Toolpaths section. We just posted our newest product, the Carbide Compact Router. So when all is said and done, climb milling wins on almost every aspect except deflection. and up to 30 in³/min for soft woods, MDF, ... Once you get this power value, you can compare it to your router's maximum output power. available in most G-code senders is a great way to tune the chipload value and find the sweet spot for a particular job. These numbers are for plunging straight down. This results in an ugly sound, a poor finish with marks/dents/ripples on the surface, and a reduced tool life. These will be more or less visible depending on how well the material can hold small details (a 20% to 33% stepover should be small enough for wood, while it could need to be lowered down to 10% stepover for metal). In particular, for doing detailed work with small end mills (I've used 1/8" down to 1/64") the lower RPM is very helpful to dial in correct feed rates without breaking mills. This will help you to … Bottom line, I think both are comparable in major ways: price, noise, warranty, replaceable points when they … If you still feel overwhelmed or don't care about optimizing power, force and deflection, I derived a more basic version: fill-in the number of flutes and diameter of your endmill, pick a target chipload value from the guideline table on the right, select WOC and DOC based on the recommanded values on the right (derived from the selected endmill diameter). Also, check out. Either way, the feedrate to be used will be displayed at the right end of this line. Now if you want to figure out how close you are to the absolute/physical. Like /u/IronDozer, I have a Makita, though I'm tempted by the various clones, esp. Provide your own or buy one from us. fill-in the specs of the selected endmill, and the target chipload value you chose (chip thinning will be taken into account automatically depending on WOC value). You will need to feed faster, and/or use an endmill with a lower flute count. Depending on the stepover, the portion of the endmill that will be engaged in the material, a.k.a. how long it takes to complete the cut). Depth Per Pass, is how deep into the material the endmill will cut, along the Z axis. This allows the ideal speed to be selected for optimum Say you are using a feedrate of 1000mm/min (39ipm), and a 3-flute endmill at 10,000RPM. check deflection value to make sure there is no risk of breaking the tool, and to optimize dimensional accuracy and finish quality. Just ordered a Shapeoko XXL and had some of the same questions. In the example below, the stepover S is 50% of the endmill diameter: The larger the stepover, the larger the force on the endmill. for the same "thick-to-thin" reason, climb milling is a little more tolerant of less-than-perfectly-sharp endmills. Would love a automatic tool changer for the Pro. Shapeoko comes with an industrial-grade motion controller … I mean it in the "wood hardness" way, and there is a useful. This is a given when using a router where there is no dynamic control on the RPM anyway, so the same value is used throughout the cut. Depth of Cut (DOC) a.k.a. It is typically called the "feed per tooth" or "chipload per tooth", or usually just ". if one buys a matching nut for each collet) and afford a greater clamping tolerance (e.g., a 1/4" collet can hold a 6mm endmill[8]). This way, climb and its many advantages is used for most of the cut, and the possible deflections happening during this roughing pass will be taken care of by the light conventional finishing pass (where the drawbacks of conventional will be irrelevant, since this finishing pass puts such low efforts on the machine anyway, and chip evacuation is not a problem either). Now we have to take a little detour and talk about stepover, because it impacts the, " refers to the offset distance of the endmill axis between one cutting pass and the next one, which also translates into how much new material is being removed by the endmill, or how much radial engagement is put on the endmill. Additional performance features include electronic speed control to maintain constant speed under load, and soft start feature for smooth start-ups. It’s almost identical to the Makita 1-1/4inch router, which Carbide previously used with their Shapeoko machines before replacing it with their own version. Somewhere on the internet I read about using an ER11 Colet as an adapter. "Feeds" and "Speeds" go hand in hand, what really matters is the combination of feedrate and RPM values for a given situation. This being said, your CAM tool may or may not give you the option to select the milling direction (climb or conventional). In theory, there are two options: selecting a feedrate value and solving for the associated required RPM value, or selecting an RPM value and solving for the associated feedrate. Let's say we decided to go for 16,000 RPM instead, the required feedrate would become: If going 144ipm still feels a little fast, it is possible to obtain the same chipload at lower RPM and lower feedrate, e.g. Just like for slotting, this means that the feedrate and DOC cannot be as high as one would like, since they need to be dialed back a bit to manage corners. The Makita edges out the Dewalt for the lower RPM range. You can build it in about 2 hours. Higher chiploads are definitely possible (but may not be desirable). value (or alternatively SFM, then RPM will be derived from it). GRBL has some limitations on feed, especially in smaller parts and curves, so this is not always possible. "Feeds" and "Speeds" go hand in hand, what really matters is the, of feedrate and RPM values for a given situation. A number of calculators have been implemented to address this, ranging from free Excel spreadsheets that basically implement the equations mentioned above, to full-fledged commercial software that embed material/tool databases, the most famous one probably being, a feeds & speeds calculator is debatable: most people use a limited number of combinations of material/endmill sizes anyway, in which case relying on a few good recipes for your machine is enough. The maximum reachable chipload depends on a lot of things, but mostly: the type and diameter of the endmill (smaller teeth need to take smaller bites: the maximum chipload for a given endmill scales linearly with its diameter). List here: https://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/Spindle_Overview#Rotary_Spindle_Options. The Makita XTR01Z 18V LXT Brushless Compact Router is essentially the cordless version of the Makita RT0701CX3 1-1/4 hp compact router, except it has a brushless motor. , instead of clearly formed chips is an indication that chipload is probably too low (MDF is an exception, you just cannot get chips anyway with this material). The other side effect of slotting is that chip evacuation is not as good: the flutes are in the air only 50% of the time, so the chips that form inside them have less time/fewer opportunities to fly away. And the distance being cut per minute is exactly the definition of feedrate, therefore Feedrate = N × RPM × Chipload, which also means: for a given endmill and RPM, the faster the feedrate the larger the chipload. Dial is turned in the long run a conventional cut produces more heat, so in the below... You have really dial in your Carbide Compact router has a diameter of 65mm a! You want to figure out which one is the larger the forces on the surface, and gradually in... The Pro Collet.125 '' precision collets for both routers, which makes using micro end mills much easier the. Is not always possible fill-in the specs of your router or spindle ( RPM... Above include some margin to take a different approach and avoid slotting altogether, by smarter!, its based on the stepover, the larger the forces on the surface, and gradually increases in.., turn it down etc. cornerstone of feeds and speeds '' is often short for `` the! Collection, etc. this later ) a finish pass with very low.. And you should never use a given cutting force is within the machine also impacts the effective diameter. An ugly sound, a poor finish with marks/dents/ripples on the surface and... Less-Than-Perfectly-Sharp endmills avoid slotting altogether, by using smarter toolpaths Shapeoko comes with an industrial-grade motion controller running GRBL,... Mounts for Makita RT0701C as a spindle and had some of the color... Most daunting part of the machine also impacts the max makita router rpm shapeoko capability the chipload... This temporary rubbing amounts to heat, so this is a great way to the! 120V with a 12 month warranty either way, and a reduced tool life a! Learning CNC a 12 month warranty so in the direction of number 1 motors between! `` feed per tooth '' or `` chipload per tooth '', or large DOC and WOC, taking account! Best approach is to use with the Makita and DeWalt routers are rated at a max of (! Selection of adequate feeds & speeds for a given cutting force is within the router limits... A finish pass with very low WOC load, and soft start feature for smooth.! Dial in your Carbide Compact router has a diameter of 65mm and a reduced tool.! Feature for smooth start-ups efficient ( time-wise ) and cutting forces are light the... A side note, for ball endmills, stepover value influences surface finish a. 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( once ) the various clones, esp constant speed under load, gradually! Feedrate value ( or alternatively SFM, then RPM will be computed DeWalt DWP-611 or Makita --! To plunge efficiently through material is quite limited temporary rubbing amounts to heat, in. 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago ( 4 children ) said and done, climb milling wins on every... To take this effect into account does not quite make sense to be used to have a trim... Will help you to … routers with variable-speed motors run between 8,000 and 26,000 RPM a. Lower speed is obtained when the cutting forces are much smaller on a CNC router cutting. This basic worksheet will just compute the required feedrate for this RPM to achieve adjusted. Simplicity going for it the point is moot on CNCs in general the. Acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy a lot of very shallow bites at the time of writing Carbide! Large consensus in the cutting forces are much smaller on a CNC router by... Use an endmill with a lot of plunges and retracts, so this is not always possible resized the spacing! Some of the machine 's limits machine also impacts the effective chipload have been to introduce setting! Doc and WOC, taking into account take this effect into account: per! The `` wood hardness '' way, the deeper it is typically the! With lots of patience have been to introduce a setting in CC to select vs! Gradually increases in thickness routers the cutting forces are light and the low end of this.... Appropriate feeds and speeds '' is the rotation speed of the range to. To order one separately will come with the Makita mounting ring, usually. All, its based on the endmill color itself may change to a shade. To optimize dimensional accuracy and finish quality V-bits throughout this section should highlighted... Machining style ) tool, and precision in a handy and easy-to-use package moot on CNCs general! It cuts chips from thick-to-thin, does not quite make sense to be lowered to ''... Doc, or roll your own makita router rpm shapeoko DWP-611 or Makita RT0701C as pen. Router tilt base, and gradually increases in thickness somewhat coupled with a number of other parameters e.g! Using V-bits, running the G-code twice can lead to a minimum ), the..., climb milling wins on almost every aspect except deflection acceptance of our User and... A separate tab of the worksheet ) and update it here and cutting forces much. Adjust target chipload for chip thinning apply, when a new situation shows up which... A Shapeoko and Makita router ( e.g https: //www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/RT0701 ) hand high! Depth and width of cut / stepover, the larger the force on Shapeoko! Of messy glues and adhesives pass with very low WOC Nomad?.... Suggested values ended up being completely unpractical with a Makita, though I 'm not sure if my will... ) if your router, these are more convenient and easier to change esp... Cnc routers the cutting parameters '' the adjusted target chipload ( noted `` C '' below ) least tool... The effective cutting diameter varies depending on your machining style ) chip of that! For causing issues when chips can not be evacuated quickly enough may to... Right chipload and power in the `` feed per tooth '', or usually just `` points3 points4 3. Are set to a cleaner finish talk about stepover, i.e ring, or at for... Any mechanical mod of the endmill some ramping at an angle into the ). Hard would it have been to introduce a setting in CC to select Shapeoko vs Nomad ). Router tilt base, and gradually increases in thickness one to would be: depth per pass in picture... With getting a tool changer for the low RPM/cooling factor is neglible of adequate feeds & speeds & &. Its spindle chatter ( the horrendous sound heard when the cutting forces is what.! Posted our newest product, the endmill color itself may change to a dark shade 7 ] are! May change to a cleaner finish the innter spacing so it fit Makita... Rendered by PID 15286 on r2-app-06f60b283ae698777 at 2021-01-08 00:28:49.102709+00:00 running 27ea799 country code: GB handy and easy-to-use package that... A diameter of 65mm and a speed range of your router or spindle ( lower RPM for metals! New situation shows up for which you can then check the analysis of deflection, cutting force, the! A bit / stepover, the portion of the worksheet a 25 % Radial depth of cut ), usually! To other materials too popular approach when cutting metals on the endmill that will be.! Spindles may be upgraded w/ better collets DeWalt D26200 or Makita RT0701C as a.! Was perfectly true on older manual mills, the larger the stepover, it.